Comments on: Paddy Murphy on The Celtic Tiger and Irish Economy and Society http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/murphy/ Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:39:39 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: hoho http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/murphy/#comment-427 hoho Fri, 20 Mar 2009 05:06:25 +0000 http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/?p=97#comment-427 Clearly, the Celtic Tiger was the same neo-liberal clap trap that has fueled the rest of the world: smash wages and benefits to increase profits. Once the demand falls off for goods, flood the market with cheap credit and deregulated financial markets. Well, now the gig's up. Ireland fell harder then the rest of the Western world because it has traditionally been a third world country and has less "real", productive economy to cushion it when the neo-liberal model when it fell. Clearly, the Celtic Tiger was the same neo-liberal clap trap that has fueled the rest of the world: smash wages and benefits to increase profits. Once the demand falls off for goods, flood the market with cheap credit and deregulated financial markets. Well, now the gig’s up. Ireland fell harder then the rest of the Western world because it has traditionally been a third world country and has less “real”, productive economy to cushion it when the neo-liberal model when it fell.

]]> By: Garibaldy http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/murphy/#comment-161 Garibaldy Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:19:33 +0000 http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/?p=97#comment-161 I don't know Abdul if Dublin is really the murder capital, though it may well be in percentage terms given the high number of gangland murders. I agree that Luck and the Irish is written from quite a bourgeois perspective - one problem for example being the lauding of Garret Gitzgerald for advocating things that had been part of the left's agenda long before - though I think the economic chapter does deal with the downside a lot more than many other commentators. I don’t know Abdul if Dublin is really the murder capital, though it may well be in percentage terms given the high number of gangland murders. I agree that Luck and the Irish is written from quite a bourgeois perspective – one problem for example being the lauding of Garret Gitzgerald for advocating things that had been part of the left’s agenda long before – though I think the economic chapter does deal with the downside a lot more than many other commentators.

]]> By: Abdul-Rahim http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/murphy/#comment-157 Abdul-Rahim Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:37:09 +0000 http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/?p=97#comment-157 I read «Luck and the Irish», it was quite a bourgeois perspective, if not somewhat informative. Also is Dublin really the European murder capital? I read «Luck and the Irish», it was quite a bourgeois perspective, if not somewhat informative. Also is Dublin really the European murder capital?

]]> By: Garibaldy http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/murphy/#comment-141 Garibaldy Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:55:04 +0000 http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/?p=97#comment-141 Thanks Justin. Shame CORI doesn't know what an executive summary is, but it looks like interesting stuff. Thanks Justin. Shame CORI doesn’t know what an executive summary is, but it looks like interesting stuff.

]]> By: Justin http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/murphy/#comment-140 Justin Tue, 21 Oct 2008 08:27:54 +0000 http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/?p=97#comment-140 "But I also think he was right to puncture some of the arrogance and to point out that the Tiger was not a story of uncomplicated success." Absolutely. FEASTA a green-leftish Irish think-tank produces an occasional journal and in the second issue Dr Elizabeth Cullen (a medical doctor), by careful analysis of the statistics, shows that while the Celtic Tiger Ireland produced a lot of wealth, it also spawned a deeply unhappy, divided, untrusting and unhealthy society. At the root of this, in Dr Cullen's view is the massive relative inequality in the country. Online in its entirety at http://www.feasta.org/documents/review2/cullen.htm This, and the sustained critique of the Celtic Tiger by the Justice section of Council of Religious in Irleand (CORI), back up P. Murphy's view of things. http://www.cori.ie/Justice/Publications/50-AnnualSocioEconomicReview/59-annualsocio-economicreview-2008 BTW, really enjoying the blog. “But I also think he was right to puncture some of the arrogance and to point out that the Tiger was not a story of uncomplicated success.”

Absolutely. FEASTA a green-leftish Irish think-tank produces an occasional journal and in the second issue Dr Elizabeth Cullen (a medical doctor), by careful analysis of the statistics, shows that while the Celtic Tiger Ireland produced a lot of wealth, it also spawned a deeply unhappy, divided, untrusting and unhealthy society. At the root of this, in Dr Cullen’s view is the massive relative inequality in the country. Online in its entirety at
http://www.feasta.org/documents/review2/cullen.htm

This, and the sustained critique of the Celtic Tiger by the Justice section of Council of Religious in Irleand (CORI), back up P. Murphy’s view of things.
http://www.cori.ie/Justice/Publications/50-AnnualSocioEconomicReview/59-annualsocio-economicreview-2008

BTW, really enjoying the blog.

]]> By: Garibaldy http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/murphy/#comment-127 Garibaldy Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:26:30 +0000 http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/?p=97#comment-127 The tone is different, and they certainly are coming at things from different angles but the analysis of the origins of the Celtic Tiger do bear some comparison - which is basically that we're not really sure how it came about, and that the insufferable smugness of those who have benefitted from it, especially among the political elite, is far from warranted because luck played a good part. I find it hard to disagree. If it was all the corporation tax, or the education system or whatever, i.e. factors that were controllable by the south, then it could be easily sustained and replicated. There is no doubt that southern decisions facilitated its emergence (the surrender of a great deal of policy to the interest of multinationals) but it was undoubtedly a case of right place, right time as well. As for O'Leary's review, I though myself it was a bit cheeky for her to complain about Foster spending time outside Ireland when she had done the same for so long. I don't think as a rule of thumb that historians must live in the countries they study, and in fairness to Foster he pointed out somewhere (possibly on the RTÉ One to One show or whatever it was called) that he spent a lot of time in Ireland. I don't think he is pissed off with the south's success. In fact, I think he is pleased with it, especially its secularisation and cultural flowering. But I also think he was right to puncture some of the arrogance and to point out that the Tiger was not a story of uncomplicated success. In fact, the sensitivity to those left behind was one of the more pleasing aspects of what was a book which I have many disagreements with. The tone is different, and they certainly are coming at things from different angles but the analysis of the origins of the Celtic Tiger do bear some comparison – which is basically that we’re not really sure how it came about, and that the insufferable smugness of those who have benefitted from it, especially among the political elite, is far from warranted because luck played a good part. I find it hard to disagree. If it was all the corporation tax, or the education system or whatever, i.e. factors that were controllable by the south, then it could be easily sustained and replicated. There is no doubt that southern decisions facilitated its emergence (the surrender of a great deal of policy to the interest of multinationals) but it was undoubtedly a case of right place, right time as well.

As for O’Leary’s review, I though myself it was a bit cheeky for her to complain about Foster spending time outside Ireland when she had done the same for so long. I don’t think as a rule of thumb that historians must live in the countries they study, and in fairness to Foster he pointed out somewhere (possibly on the RTÉ One to One show or whatever it was called) that he spent a lot of time in Ireland. I don’t think he is pissed off with the south’s success.

In fact, I think he is pleased with it, especially its secularisation and cultural flowering. But I also think he was right to puncture some of the arrogance and to point out that the Tiger was not a story of uncomplicated success. In fact, the sensitivity to those left behind was one of the more pleasing aspects of what was a book which I have many disagreements with.

]]> By: Omar Little http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/murphy/#comment-126 Omar Little Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:36:26 +0000 http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/?p=97#comment-126 I agree with most of paddy Murphy's comments. But theres no comparison with Roy Fosters in Luck and the Irish. Foster writes as if he is genuinely pissed off that nationalist Ireland survives without the Brits and Olivia O'Leary, a fine journalist simply made a few obvious points. Like Foster spends fuck-all time here and couldn't be bothered checking his facts. I agree with most of paddy Murphy’s comments. But theres no comparison with Roy Fosters in Luck and the Irish. Foster writes as if he is genuinely pissed off that nationalist Ireland survives without the Brits and Olivia O’Leary, a fine journalist simply made a few obvious points. Like Foster spends fuck-all time here and couldn’t be bothered checking his facts.

]]> By: Garibaldy http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/murphy/#comment-111 Garibaldy Sun, 19 Oct 2008 14:32:26 +0000 http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/?p=97#comment-111 Appreciate it. Appreciate it.

]]> By: jonolan http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/murphy/#comment-110 jonolan Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:25:11 +0000 http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/?p=97#comment-110 No worries. I was on Wordpress Tag Surfer and notice the typo. I figured I'd pop over and let you know. No worries. I was on WordPress Tag Surfer and notice the typo. I figured I’d pop over and let you know.

]]> By: Garibaldy http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/murphy/#comment-105 Garibaldy Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:49:46 +0000 http://garibaldy.wordpress.com/?p=97#comment-105 Cheers Jo. I just spotted that and had hoped nobody else had noticed. Oh well. Would be a shame not to use the ability to edit :-) Cheers Jo. I just spotted that and had hoped nobody else had noticed. Oh well. Would be a shame not to use the ability to edit :-)

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